Home > England, Netherlands > Opinion: England must incorporate Netherlands in C&G Trophy

Opinion: England must incorporate Netherlands in C&G Trophy

Why they must? Because only they can.

C&G Trophy exposure, like the one given to Scotland and Ireland this year is an excellent oppurtunity for the associate nations. First of all, they play against many of the best, a standard much higher than what they will be able to muster on their own, and even higher than what most other domestic teams from other countries will be able to offer them on a tour. Secondly, it is great for exposure. A very talented player, performing well, will get a look in by the counties, perhaps for a stint as a second XI or perhaps even first XI player. But the most important thing is that the whole thing is played out over 3 months, on weekends, so nobody has to take time off from work, like Netherlands has to on a tour otherwise. The thing is that only a few countries can technically participate in the English domestic season; France, Belgium, Ireland, Scotland and Netherlands. The first two are not at the level where they can compete with counties, the third and 4th are already playing in the tournament. So that leaves only Netherlands (I am assuming that it would be too much of travel for Denmark to undertake, and I also dont think they would be that competitive against full county sides). England have to incorporate them to raise their standard, because if they dont, its not like India is going to do so. England being the only European cricket powerhouse has a tougher task of single handedly assisting the other associates. Once the associates become strong enough on their own, England can always take a back step and split the duties on development.

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Categories: England, Netherlands
  1. Ram
    June 30, 2006 at 6:21 pm

    Nasir..

    Till 2005, I believe the C & G trophy was played in a round robin format involving the 18 counties+the 3 Associates. But, the ECB suddenly decided that the C & G trophy should be made into 2 conferences North and South from 2006, with the toppers qualifying for the finals. That meant 21 was an odd number and hence they decided to chuck out Netherlands.

    One way to overcome this situation would be to include both Netherlands and Denmark so that there’ll now be 22 teams split into 2 groups of 11 each. Another way would be to split the 21 teams into 3 groups of 7 teams each with the top 2 qualifying into a Super Six format followed by the finals. I feel the former idea will find more takers among the counties as they would get one additional game now. Also, the Associates will now relish the prospect of taking on a fellow Associate nation in their group in an official ODI (unless they are grouped with Denmark) which can bring in some much needed money for the boards and can probably get rivalries going.

  2. July 1, 2006 at 12:38 am

    Ram,

    1) The C&G Trophy before this year used to be a seperate one day tournament in addition to the domestic one day tournament for England. In the domestic one , only Scotland was the associte particiapting. All of Denmark, Netherlands and Ireland participated in the C&G Cup, which was just a knock out tournament. What happenned was that Denmark got dismissed in their match 50 runs, and the county officials decided that they dont want to have such ‘mickey mouse’ matches anymore, so they kicked out the two weaker associates.

    2) I dont think there is a problem in having 11 teams in the Southern Conference, and 10 teams in the Northern Conference for the C&G Trophy for the future. Why should there be an equal number of teams in both leagues? Its not like it will look aesthetically symetrical 🙂 And in any case, Denmark is not at the level where they can challenge the counties, and should not be incorporated at the momment.

  3. Ram
    July 1, 2006 at 1:03 am

    Nasir..

    1.The prospect of some counties getting one additional game (implying additional revvenue) in the 10+11 system may not go down well with the less fortunate counties who would no doubt object!

    2. How would a rest of Europe XI comprising of the best 11 from Denmark, Italy, Guernsey etc. fit into the scheme of things?…Though I’m sure they would get thrashed by the counties but they would still be stronger than any of these third tier countries. Maybe it’s worth trying for a year or two..In this way, the top cricketers from the lesser Associates/Affiliates would get to play against professional opposition and they can then go back and raise the standards of the game in their countries..

  4. July 1, 2006 at 1:08 am

    Ram,

    First of all, tell me where you are based, because you seem to be able to respond around the clock 🙂

    Secondly, the extra game is only against Netherlands. I dont think any county will make any money out of that. So I doubt that revenue is going to be an issue.

  5. Ram
    July 1, 2006 at 1:17 am

    Nasir..

    To answer your first question, I am actually in the U.S..

    About the second point, if they dont make money, they could as well complain that the game against Netherlands is a financial drain on them 🙂

    The bottom line I feel is to convince the ECB that the Dutch are on par with the other two Associates because the Dutch always seem to get step-motherly treatment!

  6. July 1, 2006 at 2:19 am

    Its not just the Dutch. It seems that England is only concerned with Cricket in the British Isles, not so much in the mainland. Also, they seem to be, and perhaps they should be as well, more concerned with cricket in UK. Which is why Bermuda, Gibraltar, Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Mann keep on pooping up on the European scene.

  7. Cuen Lucas
    July 1, 2006 at 2:40 pm

    Ram talked of a European XI, to balance things out if the Netherlands were to participate, and he’s on to a good idea, but instead of a European XI, why not a “British Isles” or “British Islands” team composing of the best that Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man have to offer? At least then the British public will still be able to identify with that team to a degree, possibly at least enough to keep people going to the games and keep the ECB interested.

    The Netherlands need to be re-admitted into the C&G Trophy to ensure that they get enough regular competition to keep themselves strong, because the Netherlands are, at this point , the gateway to mainland Europeand their strength could inspire other countries to become more serious about cricket.

  8. Anonymous
    July 2, 2006 at 11:53 am

    is this a chatting or something else and also i hate ur complaining nasir

  9. Cuen Lucas
    July 2, 2006 at 1:57 pm

    No, it’s someone posting his thoughts on a subject that we are interested in and the rest of us are giving our thoughts on the matter.

  10. Bruce Gaskell
    July 4, 2006 at 3:12 am

    I don’t like the idea of a ‘European XI’ composite sides in any sport often perform well below the sum of their parts, so it would be better just to have a Dutch team playing alone. Added to that the paying public and sponsors would just find the idea of a continental cricket XI odd, while for the more knowledgeable fans the Dutch have a reputation to bring with them.

    While I think it was a shame that the Dutch lost their fixtures against the counties, it is still true that the county game does far more than any other domestic league to help develope cricket, directly or indirectly.

  11. July 5, 2006 at 12:23 am

    Perhaps the best thing for Denmark would be to organize about 10 games for their national team every year with County Second XI opposition OR international opposition from Netherlands, Irelands or Scotland. Obviously these will not be ODIs, but they will be international matches still, just like the recent Ned-Den game was.

    After some time, perhaps a year or two, once Denmark can beat the second XI teams with some regularity, they can start asking for some games against full county opposition. At that time, with the history of beating the second XI of that county, they are likely to be taken more seriously and even have a chance of getting the fixtures. Right now, the counties will refuse to play them because they consider it a waste of time.

    If Netherlands cant get into the C&G Trophy, and they most likely will not be able to given that C&G Trophy is already carrying Ireland who ended at the bottom this year, they should try to do the same thing but with full county opposition. Ofcourse, 10 games may not be possible, but 5 should be doable. Ofcourse, getting the major county to play a full match during season is as difficult as getting a test team to come and play them, because the schedule is packed. It is for this purpose that Netherlands may also be able to use the tours by counties to warm up, which is usually a 3 week tour by counties before the season.

    At the end of the day, the best thing for all 4 countries is to play each other. Tour each other, and get some games played between each other.

  12. July 9, 2006 at 1:44 am

    I think one way in which the ICC can help out is this; they need to check with ECB exactly what is the loss that they are going to incur by incorporating Netherlands into the C&G Trophy. Then the ICC can work with KNCB to ‘pay out’ ECB for that amount and get Netherlands into the county circuit.

    The reason why I say this is because 1) I believe Netherlands is actually a stronger team than Ireland. So if the ECB is ok in having Ireland in C&G Trophy, Netherlands should not be that bad. 2) C&G Trophy helps out the players improve drastically because it exposes them to a pretty high stnadard of play. Remember that they are not just playing against the best players in England, but some of the best players in the world (2 pros are allowed in every county). Just look at Scotland ! 3) C&G Trophy is the ideal schedule, with its games taking place on a Saturday or Sunday. Dutch players wont even have to take time off from work. They can play these games on Sundays, and still play their club games on Saturdays.

    ICC should be able to handle this pay out without much problem if it is in the vicinity of $100-150K per year. However, if the number is higher, then I dont know.

  13. Ram
    July 9, 2006 at 2:11 am

    Nasir,

    I think the easiest (though not the most ideal) solution to this problem would be to involve the two best European Associates in the C & G trophy rather than sticking to Scotland and Ireland..now, not only would these Associates provide better competition to the counties, the financial problems associated with incorporating a 3rd team can also be avoided.

    The mechanism would be to take out the worst performing Associate nation of this year’s C & G trophy and replace them with the 3rd nation in line and keep doing the same year after year…this would also keep the Associate nations on their toes and they would strive to give their best and may end up performing a lot better than what they actually manage to!

  14. July 11, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    One other thing that can be done is to incorporate Netherlands, and also 1 minor county, the winner of the minor county championships from previous year. That way the symetery (although this is pointless :)) would be maintained with 11 teams each.

  15. July 28, 2006 at 5:26 am

    Whatever happens, it is very important for Netherlands to go into the Euro Championships and try to win that. Certainly, it will be a tough ask to beat Scotland, but Ireland they must beat, and should not get into a tangle against either Italy or Denmark.

    That may help them in making the case for inclusion into C&G Trophy next year, or for 2008.

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